Today’s Advertiser helped make the production and delivery of this episode possible. But the themes expressed by the guests do not necessarily reflect the views of Inside Reproductive Health, nor of the Advertiser. The Advertiser does not have editorial control over the content of this episode, nor does the Advertiser's sponsorship constitute an endorsement of the guest or their organization. The guest's appearance is not an endorsement of the Advertiser.
How did Maven turn into a unicorn, a new company with a $1Billion valuation? How did they raise $300M?
Find out with today’s guest, Kate Ryder, Founder & CEO of Maven Clinic, as she reveals the strategies behind Maven’s extraordinary success and how she built a three comma company.
Tune in as Kate takes us behind the scenes of Maven, covering:
The secrets to making TTC coaching work within their business model (Even though its failed in so many others)
The formation and impact of Maven Managed Benefit (Their carve-out admin program)
Her vision for the future of managed care in fertility (And how traditional insurance may adapt)
Lessons learned from her time in venture capital that shaped her entrepreneurial journey
Her approach to hiring experts and building top-tier leadership
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Transcript
[00:00:00] Kate Ryder: They know that, you know, we're very transparent in how we price and how we charge. And so they know that really that we charge on kind of the member experience, the clinical care management. And we, and as a result, you know, it's, it's not just kind of better clinical outcomes, better member experience, but it's a new business model that's more value based in an industry that was tipping very heavily into be for service, which is, you know, a bunch of models that.
Maybe make more money when more people go through IVF, which can lead to unnecessary cycles. And so, so that's something I think that also we challenged about the status quo and, and the market responded well.
[00:00:41] Kevin Ali: Hi, I'm Kevin Ali, CEO of Organon, and at Organon, we're committed to engaging with leaders across reproductive medicine.
So I'm excited to introduce today's guest, Kate Ryder, founder and CEO of Maven Clinic. As the driving force behind the largest virtual clinic for women's and family health, Kate has revolutionized access to care across fertility, maternity, pediatrics, and menopause.
[00:01:10] Sponsor: This episode was brought to you by Organon.
Organon is committed to championing care equity in fertility. By elevating education, expanding resources, and investing in innovative solutions, Organon stands with aspiring parents on their unique journeys. Learn more at FertilityJourney.com.
Announcer: Today's advertiser helped make the production and delivery of this episode possible, but the themes expressed by the guests do not necessarily reflect the views of Inside Reproductive Health, nor of the advertiser.
The advertiser does not have editorial control over the content of this episode, nor does the advertiser sponsorship constitute an endorsement of the guest or their organization. The guest's appearance is not an endorsement of the advertiser,
[00:02:07] Griffin Jones: I go into some of Kate's background to help explain how Maven got to where they are. I jump around a bit in terms of timeline because it's such a large venture. It takes. Different angles to understand how it all came together. You know, like I say, in every episode with every company, I don't know how well they are run or what the market will decide about them in the long run.
So just try to ask questions and let my curiosity fascinate me. And hopefully they answered some of the questions that you were wondering about. Like what's this new TTC coaching that Maven offers? How is that different from other offerings in their fertility trend? Why are they able to make that work in their business model when other business models doing TTC coaching failed?
How did their carve out administration program Maven Manage Benefit form? How does Maven work with fertility clinics like yours? in their Maven performance network. How does Maven work with the traditional insurance companies? What does Kate think the traditional insurance companies will do as the fertility field and managed care in the fertility field really begins to expand?
What lessons did she learn as a venture capitalist before she herself became the entrepreneur? And what's her approach to hiring experts to join her leadership team of a company that's now valued over a billion dollars? Enjoy all this and more in my discussion with Kate Ryder. Ms. Ryder, Kate, welcome to the Inside Reproductive Health podcast.
[00:03:22] Kate Ryder: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:03:23] Griffin Jones: I look forward to getting to know you some more. I look forward to getting to know Maven a little bit more. First, we have some very hard, we have a very hard hitting question that must go on the record, I'm told. When you reach for a bagel, do you reach for the top?
[00:03:41] Kate Ryder: I typically reach for the top.
[00:03:45] Griffin Jones: So this is a Maven cultural question, I'm told.
[00:03:48] Kate Ryder: It is.
[00:03:49] Griffin Jones: But my problem with it, Kate, is why would somebody just go for the top or the bottom? If I'm going for a bagel, I'm, it has to be top and bottom.
[00:03:59] Kate Ryder: Well, I, I think that, you know, our founding CTO was Zach Zaro of Zaro's Bagels. So this tradition started when he would bring bagels every Friday morning when we were like a small team of 10 people.
And we asked everybody this and I, it's just, people have such strong opinions. Do you eat the whole bagel? Do you eat the kind of, you know, the very bready top? Do you eat the bottom? And so I think it really reveals, reveals a lot. And you still ask the question. We do. Every time we have a board member or somebody kind of coming to an All Maven meeting, we always ask the question.
[00:04:33] Griffin Jones: I like it. I want to talk more about some of the new services that Maven has added in your fertility division, but I think that I might need to paint a little bit more context for the audience because Maven. And then there's other people in my audience that know very little about you all, that it's a name that they've heard.
You've made some big splashes in the tech. and finance newspapers, and there are parts of the sector that I think do a lot of work with Maven and I think there are other parts of the sector that still haven't interacted with you all much. And so, you know, my 60 second explanation to someone would be It started off as a women's and family health services platform, uh, digital clinical services, starting off direct to patient, has expanded to work with clinics in different verticals, has expanded to work with different, now with employers and, and being a benefits provider for employers.
What am I missing or how, what is your elevator? What's the better elevator speech of, of Boone Maven as?
[00:05:38] Kate Ryder: So Maven’s a virtual clinic for women and families, and what we do is we cover everything from preconception and fertility care, through pregnancy, pediatrics, and menopause. You know, clients, we work with 2, 000 clients today around the world and across 175 countries.
And I think really where clients love working with us is we can be their front door to women's and family health. And so we see a lot of clients really leaned in both on the fertility side for the Benefits Administration as well as the maternity side because, you know, we drive outcomes in that segment.
[00:06:14] Griffin Jones: When you're saying clients in this regard, you're talking about patients?
[00:06:17] Kate Ryder: No, we're talking about 2, 000 employers and health plans.
[00:06:21] Griffin Jones: Okay, so clients on that side and then do you call, in clinics are they also called clients or do you just refer to them as clinics?
[00:06:28] Kate Ryder: Yeah, our Maven performance network. So we work with, you know, hundreds in our Maven performance network, and that's really the contracted network through which we administer the fertility benefit and send our patients when we're administering a benefit for an employer.
[00:06:45] Griffin Jones: I want to go back more into your history. MAVEN, but first we'll start with perhaps what's more recent is adding on some trying to conceive poaching. But you already have a trying to conceive track or a fertility track, so how is this different from those other offerings in the fertility track, like your partnership with the Cleveland Clinic and, you know, there's And other things.
So what's new about this TTC coaching?
[00:07:13] Kate Ryder: Sure. So it's something we're really excited about because everyone teaches you how not to have a baby. Most people do, at least. But almost none of us learn how to conceive. And then by the time, you know, people are ready to conceive, There's no clear place to turn and I think so if you think about a fertility product there's the administration component and that's that's kind of what a lot of people associate with a benefits product right you you say oh okay I can go to one of these clinics and my my employer or my health plan is going to pay for me and And I'm going to get my drugs shipped through this benefit and I'm going to get all my bills here.
But I think the other big thing is that if you think about the fertility patient, a lot of them, you know, don't yet know what pathway is right for them because of this lack of education that, that I kind of just mentioned. And so really are this trying to conceive coaching product is designed to help every member.
Get the full picture of fertility before they choose their pathway and then get the right pathway for them. And so what that may look like is someone could come in, maybe they're kind of really nervous about their reproductive health based on a TikTok video or things they've heard from their friends and, you know, they realize they have these benefits.
And so instead of just going straight to IVF, you know, they'll be able to talk to a Maven coach who can kind of take a larger step back and say, What are your goals? What's your health history? You know, maybe you don't need IVF. Maybe you need thyroid medication. Maybe you just need to adjust your diet or maybe you need to use ovulation strips.
So there's so many things that people can do to get pregnant naturally that, you know, oftentimes when people are entering that fertility journey, no one is being taught that. It's either you get pregnant naturally and you have no questions or, oh my gosh, do I need IVF? And so what we're trying to do is build that gray space in between.
[00:08:55] Griffin Jones: So is the TTC coaching funneling people to different types of diagnostics in tests? So how does it start? Like, how does a patient go through it?
[00:09:04] Kate Ryder: Sure. So somebody kind of comes onto the Maven platform, they fill out an assessment, they fill out, you know, a little bit about their medical background, what their goals are, and then they talk to a conception coach.
And so the conception coach is going to assess, okay, do you need, should you go for a full workup? And, you know, do you need some testing? Or Are there just basic things that maybe you could try, like using ovulation strips, you know, that incredibly, it's a very easy thing. And a lot of people miss that step.
And so it's really kind of then becomes a one to one relationship between the conception coach and the member versus this kind of one size fits all model. And so the conception coach will work with the member to figure out what's the best for, for them. And, you know, it could be immediately that they go into IVF.
Because that is the right pathway for them. It could be, you know, get a bunch of tests and, and, and then adjust a few things. It could be trying medication and the conception coach connects them with one of our fertility doctors, reproductive endocrinologist. So there's so many different pathways and that's what we're trying to really drive, which is this kind of very personalized model of care.
[00:10:10] Griffin Jones: And if they do go to IVF to one of those fertility doctors that you connect with them, is that's the, What did you call it? Partnership of Excellence? What was it? The network? Oh, I'm David Performance Network.
[00:10:20] Kate Ryder: Yes.
[00:10:21] Griffin Jones: David Performance Network.
[00:10:23] Kate Ryder: Yeah. It's a closed network of all the best clinics that we work with to send our patients to.
[00:10:28] Griffin Jones: How many fertility clinics are involved in that network now?
[00:10:33] Kate Ryder: So over 400. It's always growing based on client need or certain geographies, but it's, it's US focused. We have a closed network in the US and an open network globally.
[00:10:45] Griffin Jones: And so, for those folks that, that are, that are moving through that, that pathway, do you stay, can, do they stay connected with their MAVEN coach, the, throughout that process once they move to the fertility clinic?
[00:11:00] Kate Ryder: Exactly. So, you know, going through an IVF cycle, of course, they'll be working really closely with their doctor, but there's so many questions and so many things that happen, you know, outside the four walls of a clinic, and I think there's also things that, you know, this is, of course, both an art and a science, and so there's lots of questions that patients may have, you know, as they're going through things, maybe they didn't have a So, um, you know, when a patient is, you know, in a successful first cycle, you know, maybe they're hearing conflicting things from, you know, different doctors.
And so, and so our conception coaches are just there to kind of be that quarterback. And when they're actually going, you know, to a clinic to, to be able to connect them as well to, you know, other types of specialists who could be supportive. So, fertility nurses, you know, fertility awareness educators, dietitians, mental health, that, you know, all of these types of providers that support around the experience.
[00:11:50] Griffin Jones: This model of conception coaching prior to needing treatment, in many cases even prior to diagnostic, I think is really needed in the marketplace. I've seen other people attempt it, and I think I've seen other people even provide value. That's the patients that we're using really liked it, and sometimes I would see clinics getting referrals from those platforms.
I remember looking at a couple clinics referrals and seeing sometimes 5 percent of their patients would come from some of these platforms. But they couldn't make it work on a business model for whatever reason. Either it wasn't It wasn't something that the patient was going to pay for, it was something that the clinic might have fought them on an attribution.
The clinic didn't want to pay for it. And I saw this thing, it's like, okay, people are benefiting from this, but for whatever reason, product market fit, it isn't working. What do you think it is about the way Maven is set up that will allow this to work from a business standpoint?
[00:12:49] Kate Ryder: Yeah, no, it's a great question.
We, you know, it's, it's part of our benefits administration product. So it's not a standalone feature, but it's, it's, it's, it's a really critical component that drives the, the clinical outcomes of an otherwise, you know, administration heavy product. And so we kind of, MMB, Maven Managed Benefit is what we call it.
And we call it kind of a next generation Benadmit fertility benefit because you have the, the design components, that you work with the client with, which is the clinic, you know, the clinic network design. We have the contracted rates with the clinics, you know, the, the, all of the, you know, administration that goes on behind the scenes when you're implementing a benefit.
But what was missing when it was just a payer doing this was, well, let's make sure though that the patient's And so, really, it's that combination of care and coverage that is so unique to Maven and ensures that, you know, this is a business model. Not only that's going to work, but it's, it's actually, you know, really, really outcomes focused, which is unique for, I think, the industry.
[00:13:57] Griffin Jones: So the TTC poaching, that's just for those that have the Maven Managed Benefit?
[00:14:03] Kate Ryder: Exactly. I mean, that's the, it's wrapped around our, our management, our Maven Managed Benefit. Some, some clients, to be honest, if they, if they do administration through their health plan, they can still kind of bring this on as a wraparound.
So, you know, it still can be a standalone product, but, but mostly we see clients really excited about the integration with the coverage.
[00:14:25] Griffin Jones: This might be a dumb question, but that's never stopped me from asking questions like that in the past. Are those that have maybe managed benefit, are they only those that get it through their employer?
Can freelancers and self employed people also get it, or is it almost always through employers that are typically, you know, similarly structured, you know, that, that get insurance by the, the normal laws of Affordable Care Act, et cetera?
[00:14:53] Kate Ryder: Yeah, at this point, it's only through your employer.
[00:14:56] Griffin Jones: This seems like it was important to add.
Did you see it, like, first as a Is there a benefit necessary for the patient or was it necessary for the, the employers because it's like, well, we have, we have all of these people and, and we might be paying for people that to go through IVF that don't really need it. How did the, what was the impetus behind it?
[00:15:22] Kate Ryder: Yeah, so I think the main impetus was, was that it was this, the patient journey, right? It was the patient experience. So many people just not knowing what to do. And it was our fertility doctors actually saying, I'm seeing all these, these patients and they come in and they don't need IVF, but they're either.
So anxious, they are misinformed and they're now thinking, oh, they have, you know, they took an AMH test and their AMH is low and, you know, that's just one input into someone's fertility profile. And, and therefore, you know, they're asking you to go directly to IVF because they have three cycles or, you know, and they have rich fertility benefits and they're, and they're, and they don't even need to, there are so many other things that they can be doing.
And so, I mean, it was. It was both a combination of the patients and the providers themselves. I know, you know, one of our medical directors, Brian Levine, and, you know, and, and Yael, who, you know, Salem, who's another medical director. And, you know, we were, we were definitely hearing some stories from them too, as well as just some of the fertility doctors who work at the clinics in our network.
And so we went on this listening tour of both the patient side and the provider side to understand like, all What's needed here? Because it feels like there's a major gap, and particularly as Gen Z and Millennials increasingly, and particularly Gen Z, is getting so much of their health information from TikTok, social media, there's, there's just, there was just a lot that kind of needed to be unpacked.
And, and, you know, they're getting all of the, all of these kind of scary stories of infertility that may or may not apply to them. And then they were kind of leaping to conclusions like, well, I need to go freeze my eggs now, or I need to go into IVF. And so this is where we really wanted to make sure we were taking a larger step back when someone was ready to, you know, start their family building journey to say, okay, let's just really give them that personalized support and that That evidence based support with a conception coach as the quarterback, but then also connected to the larger Maven network of fertility nurses, of doctors, of mental health providers to say, okay, let's figure out what's right for you.
And then we design your benefit or we work with the payer who designed your benefit. So we can actually then help you navigate what comes next if it is IVF that's needed.
[00:17:37] Griffin Jones: Yeah, the younger the patient, typically the more nurturing they need in the process, right? I remember when started off in the field and people would say, you know, patients that come to us from scheduling an online form are more likely to cancel than someone referred by a doctor or someone that, you know, we've spoken to and has come in previously.
And I'd said, well, yes. But it's going to be more of that. You're going to have less people either coming through their OBGYN or less people calling you on the phone, more people that want to kick the tire in some way. And so for a long time, that's been really inefficient because it's not like we have a really good CRM that links to people's EMRs.
And even if you did, there's still a lot of nurturing that has to take place in, in that process. And I can see how you being spread out across the different verticals allows you to do that. Where does the virtual care end and the moving on to the performance network partner begin?
[00:18:36] Sponsor: Organon is dedicated to delivering impactful medicines and solutions for a healthier tomorrow.
Guided by its mission of being here for her health, Organon proudly recognizes fertility providers around the world focusing on care equity. We believe everyone should have access to fertility education and treatment. By collaborating with providers, advocates, and communities, Organon is working to elevate fertility awareness, expand resources, and invest in innovative products that help more aspiring parents access the care they deserve.
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[00:19:26] Kate Ryder: So, well, the virtual care never ends. We're always kind of in someone's pocket, which is really cool about Maven, but Really it's, you know, if, if they're working with a coach, let's say they're on some plan with the coach and you know, they, they decide six months is the right time that if they try for six months based on adjustments, based on ovulation tracking, based on whatever they need, if they're not pregnant, maybe that's the right time.
Maybe it's three months depending on their age. So again, there's no like one, you know, this is the pathway everyone follows because it is so unique to each patient. And. You know, I, I think, you know, for example, we have a patient who has PCOS, was told, oh, you're going to need IVF, you're not going to get pregnant naturally.
She worked with our, our care team and a coach, you know, for three months, got pregnant naturally. So, you know, her pathway ended at a natural pregnancy. We have another. patient who actually came to speak to our, our growth team a few months ago for, for a growth kickoff event. And she was talking about how she went to this one clinic and, and, and the, and the doctor, you know, did a few cycles.
It wasn't working. They said that, you know, she had unexplained infertility. She was 35. So not, you know, of an age where, you know, it shouldn't work. She had already had a kid at home. And so then she worked with someone on Maven and it was just like, well, maybe you should just try another clinic, you know, so that was an example where it was just going into it with a different doctor and that different doctor kind of said, hey, I think based on the protocols here, you are over medicated on your cycle with this clinic, let's try this new protocol and then sure enough, really successful retrieval, got five embryos, and two of them are her children today.
So, I think that, I think, you know, those are some examples where, again, it's, it's not a one size fits all, unlike, you know, pregnancy, where it's, it's just, it's a much more straightforward population, you know, every month you're gestating a baby. You have a specific profile, you're on a specific risk track.
Fertility, again, it's, it's, it's just, you know, there's ups, there's downs, there's, there's things you can do and everything works out. There's things, you know, you're, you really do need the IVF, but then you need the right clinic. So there's a lot of considerations that go into supporting our patients to get the baby that they need.
[00:21:43] Griffin Jones: Do they do testing when they're with the MAVEN care team prior to being referred to a performance network partner? Like, do you send them out for AMH or FSH testing or anything like that prior to sending them to a clinic?
[00:21:58] Kate Ryder: Yeah, so we have some partners who we can send them AMH tests and we can, but we also will say, Oh, maybe you should go into one of our clinics and, and, you know, get an entire workup and then they'll, they'll, that clinic is already in our network.
So, you know, we'll then discuss the results of that together. So it really depends again on the patient. Some of them, particularly. The ones that are older who, you know, there's not a ton of time and age related fertility decline, you know, is, is a, is a very real thing that they could be experiencing. You know, that's when you want to kind of do things quickly, you know, for patients that are much younger that are still kind of just figuring it out.
You know, those are the ones that, you know, they might get our, we have an ovulation strips partner as well. They might try that. They might take an AMH test, kind of, you know, discuss, discuss all the results and, and there's a little bit more time, if that makes sense.
[00:22:46] Griffin Jones: How did you build vertical after vertical?
And, and I'm really curious about this because going back earlier in your career, you were a journalist, which I find to be interesting as somebody who is building a trade media company and who acquires journalists. I think Did one of my journalists ever go build something like this? Yeah. It's pretty unique.
You wrote for the, the Wall Street Journal among some other publications and so I guess maybe to, to see how you, you added one vertical after the other. We have to, we have to start from the beginning. So 2014 begins Maven as this virtual family and women's health platform. What were the first offerings?
[00:23:25] Kate Ryder: The first offering was the, the telemedicine, right? So we started, we knew we were going to be a benefit. I had been very lucky to work in venture capital for the two years between being a journalist and starting Maven. So I had observed a bunch of digital health companies start, try to go consumer and realize that the better market.
was employers. So, so we were headed there, but we knew to have the real consumer DNA of product that we needed to cut our teeth and get that momentum early on from consumers. And we still have, by the way, that product today on the market, just because, you know, our mission is access. So if someone wants to download Maven and pay a little bit of money, you know, out of pocket for an appointment, they can.
So that was where we started. And then our first benefit that that we delivered to employers was a maternity benefit. So at the time this was 2015, 2016, it was really, you know, people just had these nine month phone lines through their health plans where, you know, you could talk to a nurse. The utilization was super low.
And so we brought in postpartum care and return to work support as part of a more holistic offering. And we packaged that up and that was kind of, you know, product number one on our benefits platform. And then fertility, I mean, you know, of course, not surprisingly, you know, and the WHO just said it was one out of six couples suffer from infertility.
So even in our first hundred patients, we started getting demand for fertility services. So we launched this kind of just fertility support wraparound product that had all the access to our specialists in 20, So it was pretty early in our, in our journey. It was very kind of maternity fertility back to back.
And then we expanded into benefits administration late 2019, early 2020 after demand from some of our clients saying, Hey, we'd love to just consolidate all women's and family benefits through, you know, one platform and it should be you. So can you build us this? And so we built. A light touch reimbursement platform called Maven Wallet.
And that was really for smaller clients. And it was also, you know, not just for fertility services, but if someone wanted to reimburse for doulas or backup child care, which was popular during the pandemic, you know, they could use that reimbursement platform for whatever they wanted. A lot of the, you know, sub medical spend.
And then, you know, again, we just kept hearing from clients and members, you know, they, they wanted full soup to nuts, you know, Administration and everything consolidated on one platform. You know, in the meantime, we had launched pediatrics, menopause, and so that's really what led to Maven Manage Benefit, which is our full, you know, fertility carve out platform that we launched, that we built last year and launched earlier this year.
[00:26:07] Griffin Jones: Benefits administration started in 2019, 2020 with this light touch reimbursement. All the even wallets. And you mentioned that some of your clients had brought this up to you. They wanted the N10 solution. Why, why you though? There were, there were some other people in the marketplace and yeah, but also there is the usual suspects of the traditional insurance companies and I suppose some others as well.
Why was it that they were approaching you to do this?
[00:26:39] Kate Ryder: Yeah, I think two, two reasons. One, we're pretty obsessed with the member. I've had three babies myself on Maven and, you know, we're, we're a real technology company in that regard. So we have tons of engineers and we're constantly kind of following the member and building what he or she does.
And so, we're able to show that through engagement data. It's why, you know, all four National Health Plans also partner with us because, you know, the data that we're showing on the engagement side and the member satisfaction side is strong. And also, I think, unique, like, for example, we have pelvic floor specialists as part of our maternal maternity track.
You know, that's because That women need that. And there's not necessarily kind of like, wow, this, you know, people weren't ringing the bell with that, or at least the buyers weren't, but we knew the members loved that. And we were, you know, we've had those types of providers in our network since 2016. So just being really thoughtful about what members need and where the gaps in the care model are.
And then the second thing is, is the clinical side. So We're, we've always been very focused on clinical outcomes because the way to really partner with the system and ultimately help the patient is, you know, take one of these, this highest cost area of healthcare, which is the kind of fertility and maternity journey and, and drive real outcomes.
So when a lot of our clients and, and our payer, payer partners as well, started to see a lot of our maternity outcomes validated by claims and by third parties, you know, the fact that. We were reducing spend associated with NICU. We were reducing rates of C section and, and well driving, you know, a better and more engaged member experience.
I think it was, you know, and serving the menopause market in a thoughtful way and serving the pediatrics and parenting market in a thoughtful way. You know, we just earned the trust of our partners so that they were like, you know, we want, we want you to really kind of tackle what we're seeing in fertility.
right now at this moment in time, which is, you know, the system's still not totally working for members. The costs are going up every single year. And, and, and so, you know, and the industry is just changing a lot. Like you can't keep up. So can you, you know, is there, can you do something?
[00:28:47] Griffin Jones: And so members is patients.
[00:28:48] Kate Ryder: Yeah, members is patients.
[00:28:51] Griffin Jones: Making sure that I'm keeping all my, all my definitions.
[00:28:54] Kate Ryder: I know to our clinical team, they're patients, to our product team, they're members, but yes, member patients.
[00:29:00] Griffin Jones: Well, I'm, I'm probably also offending your training as an English major because I'm jumping all over the place and not starting with one thesis, but Maven is an entity.
I think you have to break the elephant from different parts in order to be able to understand it. And so I, I want to go back to what sort of the value thesis that you started with because as you're talking about, you know, sometimes we connect people with a pelvic floor specialist because that's what they need.
And so I originally may have been starting because partly because you have members, patients that have so many different needs and they're often left to their own devices to be able to find all of the different providers and such that they need. So tell me a little bit more about why this isn't just.
Answered by going to an existing health system, wherever it might be, and I go to one specialist, and she or he refers me to another, and then she or he refers me to another, and I'm all in the same network. Why isn't that it? Why isn't that the case?
[00:30:00] Kate Ryder: Well, I think maybe what, yeah, what you're, what you're kind of getting at is like, why, why do people want something new if like, it's people are kind of doing this already and, you know, referring specialists and whatnot.
But I think the other way to think about it is that we, we have a really unique business model where we are. are incentivized to do what's right by the patient and, and put them on the right pathway, regardless of, you know, whether they go through IVF or not. And so we don't, we don't, with our clinic network, we don't take markups from clinics.
So we're very agnostic. If somebody goes through a cycle versus goes through kind of a natural conception pathway. And so I think that is another, another thing that from the payer and the clients they really like because they know that there's not gonna be hidden fees and hidden markups across drugs spend across cycles.
They know that. You know, we're very transparent in how we price and how we charge. And so they know that really we charge on kind of the member experience, the clinical care management, and we, and as a result, you know, it's, it's not just kind of better clinical outcomes, better member experience, but it's a new business model that's more value based in an industry that was tipping very heavily into B for Service, which is, you know, a bunch of models that, Maybe make more money when more people go through IVF, which can lead to unnecessary cycles.
And so, so that's something I think that also we challenged about the status quo, and, and the market responded well.
[00:31:34] Griffin Jones: Is it not enough, like I live in Rochester, New York, for example, and it seems like University of Rochester Medical Center owns everything. They, they own the system my wife works for, they own, uh, the primary care provider that I go to, I went and saw an ENT, they own that.
So is it not the case that, that someone can just find all of the specialists that they need in, in one place through a, through a health system? Because it seems like in addition to the employer side that may even also helps with this, this need to, to connect people to the different solutions that they need.
Why isn't that the case in a place like where I live, where it seems like a group owns every, you know, a, a clinic in every specialty that there is?
[00:32:15] Kate Ryder: Yeah, so I would say what's, what would be unique about that, as obviously it's, you're probably part of an academic medical center, right? And it's, it's one system.
And so I don't know the specifics of the Rochester market. I would assume, are there more, is there more than one fertility clinic in Rochester to go to?
[00:32:33] Griffin Jones: I think there might be one other lab. There's one lab within the academic system, and then there, there's at least two other offices, but I don't know if those two other offices have labs here in Rochester.
[00:32:47] Kate Ryder: Got it. Okay, well then, I mean, I think in that, in that sense, In that system, patients are going to want second opinions. They're going to want to better understand things. If you're in kind of a one provider system, there's lots of pros in that it's more transparent, it's probably more seamless on the administration side, it's less confusing, but then You know, a member or patient, you know, they might want to have second opinion, something might not be working for them.
And so Maven's network on the telemedicine side is able to give them that, which I think is really important.
[00:33:23] Griffin Jones: How does Maven interact with the traditional insurance companies, if at all?
[00:33:29] Kate Ryder: Well, we're partners with all of them, right? Aetna, Cigna, Anthem, United. So we, for Maven Manage Benefit, we would, we always would need to be checking whether, you know, where someone is against their deductible.
So we, so we are integrated with them in that regard. If someone, you know, wants to buy components of our platform and various products, oftentimes they can actually buy them through the health plan because we are partners. So if they wanted to buy Even Maven Managed Benefit is available through some health plans, but if they wanted to buy the maternity product, pediatrics, menopause, our global product, you know, they, they can do that.
So a lot of clients, particularly some of the smaller ones, really like to do that. It's easier from a contracting standpoint, from a security standpoint, you know, it's just one addendum. So, so yeah, so we'll, we'll see a lot of, a lot of people kind of, you know, take that option given the, the partnerships.
[00:34:23] Griffin Jones: I'm going to ask you to speculate, so I know that you're just totally speculating, but for me, from someone that doesn't really know the insurance space well, I just see these large companies like Aetna, United, Blue Cross, etc. losing a potential segment of their business, and maybe it's just too small for them, and that's why the Mavens and the Carrots and the Progenies and the Kindbodies have filled into some of that space, but if David Sable's right, and we do get to be a 200 billion dollar industry in the next decade or so.
Do you think that they will come back? Do you see the Uniteds and the Blue Crosses and the Aetnas, etc., coming back for the fertility benefits that they're not currently getting? We providing?
[00:35:07] Kate Ryder: Listen, I, I think it's a, it's a great question. We, what we see at least, uh, and from our, from our plan partners is that they, they also follow what the client's asking for and what the member's asking for.
So. You know, we've, there have been so many gaps in women's and family health that it's, there's a lot for the payer to kind of catch up on while they also have all these other priorities that they're working on. So for example, when menopause came up, like no one had a menopause product built out. And with smaller companies like Maven, we can, we can build that product.
faster, we can figure out very quickly, because we're a technology company, we can A B test and figure out very quickly what the member is looking for, how to drive that engagement, how to make the member happy, get them symptom relief, how to make the client happy, get their people supported. And so, so that was an example of, you know, it's not necessarily an example of, you know, fertility, but it's an example of this whole category being so underserved that that's kind of what we do in our specialty.
And so, you know, as we've continued to deepen our partnerships with the health plans, I think there, it really does kind of work on both sides because they come to us and they say, Oh, we have our clients asking for, for this. And, you know, right, right now, for example, doulas, doulas is huge in the market right now.
Everyone wants a doula benefit. Well, we do that. We can do that for our partners. And so. We also help our, our plan partners really be able to provide their clients robust benefits. So whereas maybe there might've been some duplication like on the maternity product, for instance, because, I mean, that product's been in the market for eight years because we were able to demonstrate cost savings and, and member satisfaction, then, you know, Some of the plans and hopefully all of the plans one day, we're able to say, okay, you know what, like this is, you take it, you are our partner for so many other areas of this and you're demonstrating real, you know, validated outcomes and so we're fine you taking it because it is, to your point, it's just a tiny little sliver of a service that they provide and they do at the end of the day, like they also are a client service business, just like we are.
You know, we are. And so, so anyway, so I, I think when it comes to fertility, it just depends, you know, fertility is not a standalone. I think what we're really going to see is fertility is part of a broader women's and family health strategy. And so really it's, you know, you have to, you can't just do fertility.
You have to kind of do it all.
[00:37:37] Griffin Jones: I was not planning on asking you this, but I just thought of it as you were saying that I've had more geneticists on the show recently, and they are starting to convince me that reproductive medicine and genetics will, are, you know, they're, are no longer going to be siloed in the future, that those two fields of medicine are going to be much more integrated than they are now.
How do you view that?
[00:37:59] Kate Ryder: Thank you. I would tend to agree with that. I think there, I know there's a lot of discomfort right now a little bit because it's so new and people are wondering are we entering a Gattaca type world, um, but when the technology is there and if you can kind of prove safety and efficacy and ultimately give patients choice, I think that, you know, People will be more comfortable with it over time.
Now, you know, I don't know how people are going to feel about actually manipulate, like, genomics and manipulating, you know, certain traits and attributes. Like, I think that's, is that Gattaca 2? I haven't seen Gattaca in a while, but it's like Is there a Gattaca 2? But, but certainly I think There is increasing, like we're already doing it, right?
If someone has the BRCA gene and they don't want to pass that gene and trade on to their children, like what a, what an amazing thing that they can, they can do. And so I think more and more people are getting comfortable with that. So I think as more and more, there's more and more patient stories and, and it will become more, more mainstream.
[00:39:05] Griffin Jones: You think genetic counseling is an offering that you all might one day offer?
[00:39:10] Kate Ryder: We do offer genetic counseling.
[00:39:12] Griffin Jones: So how does that work with the, uh, with the, with the Maven managed benefit, well, I should say with the TTC coaching?
[00:39:20] Kate Ryder: So part of the TTC coaching is, you know, you have your conception coach who's the quarterback, but then you have this broader Maven virtual care network that you can help your patients get their questions answered from.
So we have over 30 different types of coaches. of specialists in that network. And I met one time, someone was like, there's no way you have 30 different types of specialists. I was like, Oh, I can list that because there are so many, you know, whether it's a surrogacy coach or an egg, you know, an egg donor consultant, well, genetic counselor is one of them.
And so again, like, whether it's for fertility or maternity, quite frankly, because if you have a baby and you might, and, and, and there's, You know, they come and there's, there's some genetic anomaly that they're born with. Like you actually do want to have a genetic counselor who's talking with you in conjunction with maybe some of the other specialty doctors to understand what your options are.
And so, so yeah, so we have a few great genetic counselors through Maven that as patients kind of raise their hand and say, this is what I'm looking for, our, our coaches or our care advocates can, can link them up.
[00:40:23] Griffin Jones: I've come as a, as a small business owner to be just so impressed by people who build much larger enterprises than my own.
Because I know even building a small business, like, man, this is tough, like there's so much to learn. Drinking from a damn fire hose so often and, uh, you know, learning how much you have to learn of a given thing and you, and there's so many different things that touch your business. You started originally as a journalist in business journalism, then you became a venture capitalist.
Were you, from the beginning of your career, were you viewing those as steps to get to Entrepreneurial executive leadership, or did you, just like everybody else, kind of go to college, maybe think of just like one step ahead of you, and then that one step led you to see more? Which better describes your career trajectory?
[00:41:20] Kate Ryder: Well, I grew up with a dad who was an entrepreneur and my aunt was also an entrepreneur and my mom would help both her, her sister and my dad. So I grew up in a very entrepreneurial family. I've always been pretty, pretty focused and disciplined, but it wasn't necessarily for entrepreneurship. In the very beginning of my career, I wanted to be the Next female Hemingway.
And so I moved to Spain for two years, right after I graduated college.
[00:41:47] Griffin Jones: And I woke up at six,
[00:41:50] Kate Ryder: I did go to quite a few and was shocked to see that one of the dishes served in the bars next to a bull rig was like bull testicles. That is a delicacy in Spain, particularly New York. You got to get steered somehow.
I tried it once anyways, but, and so I woke up every morning at six and taught myself. How to write. And it wrote a terrible, terrible piece of fiction during that time. I thought, hey, you know, I think maybe I love to write, but I, I then, you know, was a journalist and pursued a lot of, a lot of journalism for a bit.
And, Really when that industry started changing a lot with the internet, you know, the, a lot of local papers were folding, a lot of things were going digital, a lot of, you know, the ad models suddenly, you know, didn't make as much sense and business models were kind of up in the air. That was when I really kind of thought, okay, maybe, maybe I don't want to sign up for this industry long term.
One of my mentors also was like, you should jump ship now while you're so young in journalism. And so that was, I tried to start my first business off the back of one of the stories that I had written for The Economist out in Southeast Asia. And that moment, it was nothing to do with healthcare, it was a travel business, but that moment, I, it felt really good.
And that was when, you know, my, my father jumped in and said, you'd be a good entrepreneur, but don't, go learn on someone else's dime first. And so then I, that was where I, I did the two years in venture capital and kind of, you know, it was all timing, right? I fell backwards into covering digital health.
And then it was also right around the time that my best, first friends were having kids. I knew I was going to have kids very soon. I started my journey with a miscarriage, which was very unexpected. And so that, you know, MAVEN was really kind of came from that time.
[00:43:35] Griffin Jones: Learning off of someone else's time and under their tutelage, I think is such valuable advice that I did not take that I wish I did.
And when I think of Doing things differently in hindsight. When I think of going and learning under someone else, I often think of going to the operator and trying to get as much access to them. And so, like, you could have gone and been the chief of staff for some CEO somewhere or, or, or someone to be.
You decided venture cap. You tried.
[00:44:03] Kate Ryder: I tried. I got rejected for all those jobs.
[00:44:06] Griffin Jones: Because they wanted more experience?
[00:44:08] Kate Ryder: Yeah, I was living in London, it was the time of the first Eurozone crisis, and you know in America, it's, it's, it's more normal for people to jump around between careers, but it's not as common in Europe.
So I, I applied for over a hundred jobs at Google and all these small companies, like I'll do whatever, and it was actually, I got very lucky that the only job I got was at this venture capital firm.
[00:44:34] Griffin Jones: So, it was on your radar to go work for an operator, it just didn't pan out. Oh, very much.
[00:44:38] Kate Ryder: I tried.
[00:44:40] Griffin Jones: If you could do it again and you had the ability, do you think you would have been able to see more as working under an operator?
Or did working for a venture capitalist give you more of a view? If we're sticking to that same time frame of you've got two years and no more.
[00:44:56] Kate Ryder: I would say that I would choose the Venture Capital mainly because I, I made tons of operate operational stakes that I had never hired anyone before starting Maven.
So it would have been amazing to get some of that experience, but fundamentally, you know, as a, as a founder, like your job is to make sure everyone gets paid every two weeks. And so I take that job really seriously. And, and so, you know, maybe one could argue that. I had to learn on the dime of the VCs who funded me in the early days, but I'm a fast learner, so , so you know that, and they's still around, right?
[00:45:32] Griffin Jones: They'll, idea is they're gonna make it back .
[00:45:36] Kate Ryder: But yes, I, I think it was helpful to learn how to raise capital under, you know, build that network. That was where our friends and family around came from in the early days. So, so that was, I, I would, I would choose that. I think I got very lucky to get that job in bc.
[00:45:51] Griffin Jones: You got that experience with the financiers. Did it also give you experience with different operators? Like, could you, did you interact with their portfolio clients and you could like get to know some of those founders and see what they were doing?
[00:46:03] Kate Ryder: Yeah, exactly. I got to attend board meetings as an observer.
It was at a time where the, it wasn't as, you know, the index venture is the fund now, you know, they're a big mega firm, but back in the day, you know, it's It was more, you could walk into any meeting you wanted on a Monday and watch any company pitch. And then I got to know a lot of entrepreneurs as well through that, through that time.
Some of them invested in Maven and became angel investors and mentors. So, so that was also very helpful.
[00:46:33] Griffin Jones: I know you can't give too many details probably, but as specifically as you can be, what were some lessons that you pulled out from there that, you know, lessons that you think of that were very useful to you in starting Maven, either that you wanted to replicate because you saw something worth emulating or things that you That was a mistake that they were never able to re come from, and I want to avoid that like the plague here.
[00:46:57] Kate Ryder: Well, I think it was really clear, even from those Monday meetings, that when I observe entrepreneurs pitching their products, is the best entrepreneurs really cared about their product, and they knew their product, and they were, you know, consumers of their product, often. And so, that's one That was something that I just, I couldn't, I couldn't just go start, you know, a business with a product I'd never use.
And so that was the, you know, I, that was one of the, I think the very early lessons I took. I had to A, really know the product, B, the user of the product, but then also deeply, deeply care about the problem. And you know, as the next journalist, like this is an endlessly complicated story. It's why in the, you know, in the beginning of this podcast, you know, what are the journeys?
It's like, gosh, the journeys are so different patient to patient. And I've. I've spoken to hundreds of them. I can't, you know, maternity is a little bit more linear, but not fertility. And so, so anyway, so I think, and then the business of healthcare is just endlessly complex. And so it's certainly, I think it was that, yeah, that was a, that was a lesson that I took very early, which I think was great.
Clearly the right lesson 10 years later. I mean, you know, I I'm still very energized, but I, I, I, some of my other founder friends are very tired after 10 years.
[00:48:11] Griffin Jones: Yeah. Well, I, you're going to need that energy given, given, uh, you know, what you've, you know, building the company into a billion dollar valuation to the.
And now how many employees do you all have right now? 600 corporate employees. And then you said, was it 2, 000 clients?
[00:48:29] Kate Ryder: Yes, we have 2, 000 clients and tens of millions of lives covered.
[00:48:34] Griffin Jones: So you're going to see that energy for as long as you're at the helm. You have good people helping you. I think the only one at the leadership level that, well, you mentioned, I know Dr.
Levine pretty well, great guy that may have connected us in the first place. I've gotten to know Dr. Shah. And I enjoy corresponding with him. How do you get people like this to come work for you at such an early stage? Because I see it all the time with companies and some. I really struggle to get that talent and they can come in with a boatload of money and they can get some people, but it just doesn't like totally gel together.
And when you have these people, and you mentioned 30 different specialties, you know, you need people that are deep experts in those areas. And why do they want to come work for somebody who's not already a deep expert in that area? That like assembling that team is, is really, really hard. What, how would you describe your strategy in doing that?
[00:49:34] Kate Ryder: Well, I mean, I just feel endlessly grateful. I think there, you know, there's, there's no I in what we're doing. It's all a we. I may be the founder and the face and I, and so is Neil, you know, I'm so happy he shares that burden with me. But, you know, we, we tell the story. So, I think it's a really good story externally, but at the end of the day, I mean, it's our incredible team that's doing everything behind the scenes.
And I think what unites us all, I mean, it comes back to culture and values. Um, you know, I think we all really care about the patient and changing the game for the patient. So, and everyone has a horse in that race, whether they are the patient, whether they're, you know, brother or sister or mother or father or family member or friend was the patient or whether it's just some bad experience they've had in health care and they really want to see things change.
And so I think we are authentically mission driven. I'm very authentically mission driven. And, you know, I just try my hardest and try to hire people that are way smarter and better than me at, in every, every, every regard.
[00:50:34] Griffin Jones: Well, there's more we could dig into with that, but by the time I have you back on, you will probably have done a whole bunch of other things that have been in the news and that'll be worth unpacking.
I look forward to having you back. In the meantime, as we conclude, my audience is fairly broad in the fertility field. It's a lot of network execs. It's a lot of REIs. It's a lot of lab directors. There are also people that are venture capitalists and private equity folks that are entering the fertility field.
And so, the, the gamut runs pretty wide across those three spheres. It also runs fairly wide from junior to senior. How would you like to conclude to our audience?
[00:51:16] Kate Ryder: Yeah, listen, I think we're, don't accept the status quo, it's, we're at such an exciting moment in time with so much fertility innovation coming online.
So much coverage and an entire industry that now looks at fertility as part of essential care, which is why so many companies in our space are having so much growth, so much new technology with AI and, you know, and whatnot. And so, so yeah, you don't, you don't have to accept the status quo when there's, there's this much change and this much opportunity that we can really design an industry that gets every patient the outcome that he or she deserves.
[00:51:51] Griffin Jones: Hey Ryder, CEO of Maven. Thank you very much for coming on the Inside Reproductive Health Podcast.
[00:51:56] Kate Ryder: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:51:57] Sponsor: This episode was brought to you by Organon. Organon is committed to championing care equity in fertility by elevating education, expanding resources, and investing in innovative solutions.
Organon stands with aspiring parents on their unique journeys. Learn more at FertilityJourney.com.
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