Dr. Aimee Eyvazzadeh is a single-physician practice owner, operating out of her clinic in the San Francisco Bay area. When she entered the field in 2008, she had one goal: reach every person who needs access to fertility care. To her, that doesn’t necessarily mean treating every patient, but it does mean putting out valuable information for patients to help them make informed decisions and, hopefully, help them reach their dreams of becoming pregnant.
On this episode of Inside Reproductive Health, Griffin and Dr. Aimee explore all the ways that she is trying to change the patient-physician relationship through communication both in and outside of her office. From her extended hours and lax phone call policy to her Podcast and YouTube channel, she has made herself accessible to her direct patients and her audience around the world. She shares what our clinics can do to further build their relationship with their patients and help make patient journeys just a little bit easier.
Learn more about Dr. Aimee and her endeavors at www.draimee.org or by visiting her on Instagram @eggwhisperer.
To get started on a marketing plan for your company, complete the Goal and Competitive Diagnostic at FertilityBridge.com.
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JONES 3:12
Dr. Eyvazzadeh, Aimee, welcome to Inside Reproductive Health.
EYVAZZADEH 3:17
Thanks Griffin for having me. I'll only stay on the show if you call me, Aimee.
JONES 3:20
I think that I can manage that for the rest of the interview! But I would like to set the stage, because we're going to be talking about Communication and Patient Relations. I'd just like to set the stage for those of your colleagues that aren't familiar with you, what you've built up the last couple years, and what it's grown into. And if you could talk about that, I think it'll give context for the rest of the conversation.
EYVAZZADEH 3:52
Absolutely. So when I started my practice, I basically had a mission and a goal. And I believe that if you take care of today, tomorrow will take care of itself. So in 2008--you can imagine now we're here in 2020--I knew I would get to the point that I'm at right now and I knew that it took all the activities that I started with in 2008 to get there. And so part of that I had a mentor that basically told me, "Aimee, write an article every single day, whatever it is short, long, put it on your blog," and I did it, he was Dr. Collin Smikle out of Laurel Fertility and he was one of the first doctors that really, truly believed in me. And, you know, I credit a lot of my success to him and all the things that he taught me about IVF when I just started out where no one else wanted to give me a job because it was the recession--people were hiring, but the structure was just not something that would have worked for me personally as a physician. And he was like, right there and he believed in me. And so with all the things that I've done since then, for example, Egg Freezing Party, Egg Whisperer, I've now Egg Whisperer school, I have my YouTube show, I have a lot of other platforms out there, an app coming out, I have a book deal, I have a documentary. And you know, I'm just so fortunate and lucky that I get to do--and I know people listening to this feel the same way--that we get to do what we love every single day. And it's super hard. And the key to being able to be as productive as I am is being able to use words to help people understand what they're going through so they can take that information, apply it to their treatment, and still be able to take care of all the human beings that I take care of every single day and not having a limit. And so people look at me, like, what you don't have a limit? And I'm like, No, if you need my help you come see me. And I'm able to do that because obviously with technology, but I feel like not everyone needs to be my patient. And so through these different multimedia platforms--for example, Instagram, YouTube--I'm able to communicate my message with people so they can take that message and take that to their doctors.
JONES 5:55
So it started off as an article a day. And now you've got an Instagram channel with many, many followers, a YouTube channel, you've got a podcast--the Egg Whisperer Podcast, is that right?
EYVAZZADEH 6:08
That's right. I have close to 30,000 downloads a month and it's growing. And it's really exciting to have people reach out from all over the globe saying, I listened to your podcast and I'm pregnant, because I know what questions to ask.
JONES 6:21
So how often are you creating content? How much time are you spending creating content now?
EYVAZZADEH 6:27
I have an idea. I basically transcribe--you know, I talk into my phone. You know, I've already written it, I send it to my producer, she makes me a PowerPoint presentation. I have a studio or I just do it over Zoom, I record it real quick. You can tell that I'm not in hair and makeup, I basically just make it happen and don't even second guess it and I put it out there. And so I'm not spending a lot of time. This isn't like two hours a day, every single day. It's basically, you know, just whenever I'm walking--in between cases, I write down my thoughts. Like for example, recently I came up with the Angel Workup, Embryo Diamonds, Hope Syndrome. You know, I just come up with these ideas and thoughts and I craft shows and articles around that to help educate people about fertility.
JONES 7:14
Help us understand a little bit more of the impetus for this. Dr. Smikle is your mentor in the beginning in 2008, he gives you this advice and the REI job landscape wasn't exactly then what it is now and you weren't finding the exact fit. You wanted to start it off on your own. But you're in the Bay Area. You're a single practitioner is that right?
EYVAZZADEH 7:36
Yep, it's me, myself, and I.
JONES 7:38
So it doesn't take so long to have more volume than you can handle. So what is the real--other than I can tell that you're intrinsically motivated to do this--what's the impetus? Like it's like, Okay, I need to create a piece of content every day it started but for what? Because if it was just to build up your practice, you probably did that pretty quickly.
EYVAZZADEH 7:58
I have a global message and I feel--as we know there are over 20 million people just in this country that don't have access to Fertility Care. And so my impetus is to reach every single person that needs to hear my message. And that message is a message of hope and of positivity and thinking about fertility as a medical issue. And I, you know, I'm constantly teaching people my belief that you test, you don't guess. There's no such thing as unexplained. You get these basic tests done, like the Tushy Method. So the Tushy Method is basically five tests that all fertility patients need to have done, or at least talk to their doctor about it. And more recently, I'm teaching people about one sentence, and that sentence is to Tell your doctor, Ask your doctor, what have you ruled out? Right? Because we're all so busy, and patients get that they feel that from their physician that no one has time for them. They're just leaving messages for, you know, well-intentioned nurses and staff members, and then maybe they're getting a call back two weeks later. But I feel like if we can figure out the right language for people to use to communicate, especially in this time that we're in, maybe patients will get what they need to help them be pregnant.
JONES 9:07
So I want to explore that part because I was just observing you from afar. And this is the first time that you and I have ever actually had a full conversation--we've spoken on the phone before, but this is the first time we really sat down face-to-face, so to speak. And I've always just wondered, observing you from afar, about the question of scale and what I wonder about--but I want to make sure that I'm hitting a lot of the points that I think your colleagues will benefit from. One of the things we want to talk about is the improvement in communication and strategies that they might be able to use. But before we can help people with what needs to be improved, what are some of the challenges that are happening in communication. I hear you mention, we're just so busy that patients don't always know what we're doing and helping to understand what's already been ruled out gives patients more context for what's going on. But what are some of the challenges that are happening in physician to patient communication, and then we can talk about the strategies for improving them.
EYVAZZADEH 10:10
Fertility patients are stressed. Right now, they're stressed more than ever, they have job insecurity, they have relationship issues, they have family members who are sick, it's just the amount of stress that our patients are feeling is so much more than I have ever seen before. So they're not hearing us. And then you have a mask on. So you're trying to communicate with someone who's really stressed and you're trying to give them information that's really important to them, that has everything to do with something that they wanted their entire life, but they're not hearing you. So one of the things I work on is how to deliver information to patients. And so I truly believe that we have to verbally tell them the information. I ask my patients to record all the conversations and record in a way that they can also have it transcribed--like for example, WhatsApp, you can record conversations and then have a printed out transcription. So I tell my patients, please record these conversations that we're having together so that you can go back and listen to them and hear them when you're less stressed. Because being in a fertility clinic can be really intimidating. And sometimes it's even triggering for some patients. So delivering information that way. Writing down the information for patients, and I always give patients a summary of every phone call and every visit. Even if it's just a follicle check from an IUI appointment, I say, today, your lining was this number of millimeters. This is the size of your follicle. This is why I've decided to give you your trigger shot this time. And this is why we're doing the IUI when we decided to together. If you don't do that, they will go online, they will go to every single Facebook group that they're in, and they'll be like, my doctor said this, what do you guys think? And so they still might do that. But at least when they do that they won't come back to you and question your decision making process. We don't have time for that. And those questions still come in and that's fine and they're all very welcome here, but I feel like if you've verbalized the information, have them record it, emailed it to them, and gave them something printed out. All of those things together can really, really help. And also I tell my patients, please bring your--you know, if you have someone on FaceTime a loved one, a support person, a partner, please have them be in this appointment on FaceTime together. So my personal rule is I don't talk to anyone in the office for an in-person consult because I like to communicate and with the mask on, it's very hard to make eye contact and communicate the way you want. And also I start my morning at six in the morning, and I don't stop talking until 8pm at night. So as for someone like me, I have to make sure that I'm taking really good care of myself and I have to respect myself. And if I don't, other people won't respect me. So patients will say no, I really want to see you in the office and talk and I say I'm sorry, that's just not possible right now, because I can't have a muzzle on like a face [inaudible] and talk to you uninterrupted for 15 minutes and then feel really good the rest of the day. Thank you for understanding. So really standing up for yourself and having a really just straightforward COVID policy that all staff abide by is also something that we do as well. So those are kind of like my tips. And the other thing would be, always remind patients when your period starts, let me know. Always. Because that's the one thing if they forget everything, that's one thing that they'll remember so that they don't feel like they're lost. Like, what's the next step? What do I do? So I joke with patient they say, look, you know, and you'll know which cars mine outside because it says if your periods here follow me. So those are the little things that I do for patients.
JONES 13:22
So is that to say, then there's no telephone consults with the telemedicine? Are you doing it all on video?
EYVAZZADEH 13:28
I do all video--I do phone consults as well. So it's phone, video. I use Enable as my EMR and they make it super easy. I can just click Video with Patients and just right then and there--there isn't a separate system, I don't have to use my cell phone. And I also do phone calls as well.
JONES 13:43
Well, it's a bit tangential, but why what advantage would a phone consult have over being masked? Yeah, if I'm wearing a mask, you can only see half my face. But if we're having this consult over the telephone, then I can't see any of your face.
EYVAZZADEH 13:57
Well, the point is I can communicate freely and not have my mask on and talk for long periods of time and be able to provide patients the information they need without limiting the conversation. So when there's a mask on, there's only so much breathing I can do underneath the mask while talking--it's for my comfort level. And so that I can also communicate everything I need to communicate with the patient without being muzzled.
JONES 14:19
So I suppose that a challenge that colleagues might have would be well, recording this, sending the messages. Who the hell has time for this?! I already have a full patient waitlist. If this particular patient isn't getting it or isn't ready, I move on to the next one, because we only have so much volume we can do anyway. And we're already packed to the gills.
EYVAZZADEH 14:42
So it's a process and a system that you have in place. So for example, you see the patient, she's getting dressed, you quickly write the note. And then you take that note as an email summary, you can push out through your EMR as a note to her, you cut and paste it into a separate email to her. And then as far as like calendars and plans, like you hand her the photos right then and there after you've communicated with her. So it actually doesn't take that much of your time. Imagine the staff time that would take when she is calling back--that's 20 minutes of your nurses time reviewing everything that you just tried to communicate with her. And you can cut down that time spent by your staff by communicating immediately and directly in that visit and having her record it potentially at the same time.
JONES 15:19
So that is very tied into patient engagement. How are you keeping patients engaged throughout the whole process? You tell them to call back when their period starts. But that's one segue to one. So how do you keep them engaged throughout the process?
EYVAZZADEH 15:34
Scheduling emails out also really helps. So for example, I tell a patient like I'm gonna check on you tomorrow, actually, I'm not gonna like have it on a checklist for myself to check on them tomorrow, for example, two days after an egg retrieval on someone who I got, like 20 eggs from, I'm going to schedule out an email that says, "Can you please tell me how you're doing today?" You know, so I don't miss the opportunity to make them feel like they're cared for which they really truly are. And I actually want to hear from them. So scheduling emails out is one thing. And then when I do a blood test or something on a patient, and I know exactly when the results are going to come back, I say, Let me know when you go to the lab--if let's say I'm not drawing your blood in here--and then as soon as you messaged me that you've gone, then I loop in my assistant in a week, we're going to schedule a phone consult to review the level. So we're constantly moving forward, constantly keeping the patient engaged, making sure we're going to create a roadmap for her success. And make sure she's not feeling lost in this process and make sure she always knows what's going on.
JONES 16:28
So delineate the difference between I guess, making sure that they're following the road map--that's one thing we always try to help with, at least when we're looking at the four pillars of attraction and retention and conversion to treatment. But against being so inundated because they're already getting so much information anyway--with my team, I always say whenever we create something new, I say, before something sees the light of the day out of fertility bridge, we first have the internal battle of simplicity and clarity versus thoroughness and completeness. So that process that you just described of keeping people engaged, how do you balance that with actually getting them through the process versus being totally inundated that they can't even process it?
EYVAZZADEH 17:17
I mean, it's being consistent and reliable and giving them information in different ways and just having one message that I'm always going to be here for you. And also I tell patients, your timeline is mine so I don't--I'm not going to--like if a patient doesn't follow up with me in the way that I've told them to follow up with me. No one's calling them to say like, Where are you guys, right? So you know, let's say--let's start with a new patient appointment. So with every video consult I always bring a patient in for an expedited ultrasound, based on the treatment decisions that we kind of loosely may have made in that first new patient consult. So that's another opportunity for me to see them. So they know that I care and I truly do. At that ultrasound, sometimes we have bloodwork planned, so their carrier screen, for example. And then I know from there two weeks later, if we still haven't confirmed a plan, because they have more questions, and they're not ready yet, or they need to work on certain things in their lifestyle, then from there, let's say I did bloodwork, two weeks later, it's another phone call, right? And then pretty soon, within two months, most patients have a treatment plan. And then with each treatment, let's say they do IUI and it doesn't work, so for example, you know, schedule an email out two weeks after their IUI. How are you doing? Let me know what were your results, let's schedule a call to make a new plan for you. So those are like the little things that you can do so that you're keeping the patient engaged, you're keeping them moving forward, and you're constantly making sure that you're always making them feel like you care. And you really do--obviously you want to do these things.
JONES 18:48
That last piece could probably be a podcast episode in and of itself, following up with patients after treatment, moving them to the next treatment phase. I just saw my cousin over the weekend and she has a two-year old from donor egg and I just asked them, you know, I know both of the groups that she went to, and just asked, "Why did you go to Group B after Group A?" And she said, "You know, I went through the whole process with Group A, and just at the end of it, it was okay, we went through all your eggs and that's it. It wasn't--there was not something like, I know this is really hard for you. Here's the next plan. It was--it just kind of dropped off." And it gave her the opportunity to say, "Well, why the hell would I come back to this group when I could just go see this other group and at the very least start anew." So can you talk a little bit more about when perhaps a treatment, whether it's an IUI or a failed cycle or failed cycle with one's own eggs, it's time to move on to donor--how do you maintain the contact with the patient, reach out to them be proactive, as opposed to you know, without being pushy, but doing it in a way that they perceive it is in their best interest.
EYVAZZADEH 20:06
It's just being consistent. So I give all embryology information in real time, every single day, directly with the patient. At the time of the egg retrieval, they have already heard this information in so many different ways as far as what the expectations are for receiving the information about their embryos. So it has to do with calendaring things out, they've already received it verbally, they've watched my videos, they've taken my IVF course through my Egg Whisperer School, a lot--almost 90% of my patients have now taken that class. And so when I'm calling them, let's say the day after the egg retrieval to give them the fertilization report, they know to expect my call because I've told them. And that's the other thing--I schedule out emails at the end of the day of each egg retrieval, saying like, How are you feeling? I'm going to call you tomorrow morning--you know, and they're individualized. It isn't like one email for everybody. I just change a few things. And then I call them the next day and then I'm calling them with each report. And let's see if something happens along the way, if we learned that this doesn't look like a cycle is going to work, I say to them, I'd like to schedule a post-IVF consult with you. I'm going to send you the embryology report and we're going to regroup and we're going to learn everything that we were supposed to learn from the cycle to see how I can help you from here because my work is not done. And so that's so important for people to hear and know. What I hear in the community and around the world and around the country is that a cycle doesn't work, it's a well intentioned medical assistant that calls a patient and says your pregnancy test is negative and they get scheduled a month out for a call? And that's by their request. No one is telling them to schedule something like that. And that's like, oh my god, like that's not how I would want someone to take care of me. So I just schedule post-treatment consults, post IVF consults, post-test consults, like consults, consults, consults, talk, talk talk, until you're successful and you don't need me anymore.
JONES 21:52
So it sounds like your patients are prepared that this is coming because they're doing the class, they've consumed so much of your content. And I think this is a big piece of what people are missing because we break attraction to conversion and post-treatment down into four pillars or four phases. The first is strangers to lead somebody that doesn't know anything about your practice is learning about infertility to then becoming an inquiry for a new patient consult--that's strangers to leads the second phase is leads to new patient console so they they've inquired but actually having them booked--that's where cancellation rate comes in. That's where responding in the contact form comes in. That's how the call center, the way they answer the phone comes in--that's the second phase. The third is new patient consults to treatment. And then the fourth is post-treatment, either bringing the patient back in if necessary, if they don't have the desired outcome or closure. Or even if they do, how they then go out and become an ambassador for the group. And most, I would say, especially now 94% of fertility centers do not have problems with the first two phases, they have problems with the other two--converting people to treatment, and then what happens afterward. But I think people are remiss in realizing just how much of those things that you might otherwise do for the first inside, we might otherwise consider marketing helps people to be persuaded, before they come in or prepared, so that they know that this is part of the process, they can actually receive the information, they know that they're going to have a post-IVF consult, and everything just moves further down the line. What were some of the steps that you brought in over time to help where you saw a roadblock and you said, you know what, this is something that people are getting caught up on and then you created some sort of content that they consumed beforehand that helped you move them along when they got to that phase?
EYVAZZADEH 23:57
It's just commonly asked questions. So like, for example, during an IVF cycle, I always know what people are going to ask, so I'm always ahead of them. So it's like, you're here for your baseline appointment, I'm going to teach you how to do the injection, this is what you're going to expect from now until your next appointment, headaches, nausea, if you have any issues, let me know. You're gonna have aches and pains in your ovaries. At the time I see you next, you might see some egg white cervical mucus. You know, just like just telling them things that might seem obvious to everyone, they're actually not obvious. And so if you just say it, you know, it can also be written down, they've seen it in the videos, but if you just let them know along the way, how they're going to feel, why they're taking what they're taking, these little bits of information, they go a really long way into making people feel like they're informed, that there's not a complication, that something bad isn't happening to them. And I think like that kind of stuff really helps. And then the post-consult--I used to call it a debriefing session and then someone pointed out was actually a psychologist that said, you know, Amy, you probably don't want to use the word debriefing because debriefing sounds like tragic and I'm like, you're right, that actually sounds really sad. So she was like, change it to this. I'm like, Oh, yeah, post-IVF consult. And then I always have that consult within one week of a cycle that doesn't work, or within one week of that. And I'll actually review all genetic and embryology information that day, or the next day that I get the genetic report. That's super important to me. Because if it were me, I'd be refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh, constantly waiting for the information. And then another little thing is just make sure you get the embryology information out to people by a certain time every single day otherwise, they really get really anxious. And then deliver your pregnancy test information that's like so important to give people an idea as to what time to expect the results based on when they go in and then sometimes we even run in-office and I have patients wait, so they can get the results as soon as possible. So it's just like, you know, everyone's style is different. Everyone has different teams that operate differently. But I feel like just, you know, real time information, as soon as you get it for these patients out there that are so stressed, I think is really important and not making them wait.
JONES 26:00
What impact, if any, has that had on patients calling the office, calling the nurses, calling the IVF coordinator for information, for inb--what impact if any, is that add on inbound calls?
EYVAZZADEH 26:15
Well, I'm unique. Every patient gets my cell phone. I do FaceTime calls between 7 to 9pm if patients need me to like watch them do their injections. We also do mixing and injecting here in the office. There's about maybe 10-15% of patients every month, who actually don't want to give themselves a shot every day. So they come here for their injection, and we mix daily for them. We also have patients who I mix for and then I dispense the syringes and needles and just label syringes and bags for them. So it's just about like asking patients up front, what are you comfortable with? Would you like to do your own shot every day? Would you like to come here every day? Would you like to mix yourself and a patient is like, "Oh my God, that's the one thing that I've been so anxious about, you'll mix for me?!" And I'm like, of course, come on in! So it's just really tailoring the whole cycle to the patient's needs. I mean, I would jump in a van with an ultrasound machine and drive around to people's homes if I had the time. And I don't. But you know, I'm all about trying to make things as comfortable and easy for people. And sometimes just having people know that you would do that for them, makes them feel so good because sometimes patients inject at home and they're fighting and it's taking like an hour and a half and the husband's chasing the wife around the house with a needle. And then she calls me and she's like, Can we just come in tomorrow? And I'm like, Yeah, don't worry about it. So those are a couple other things that I do as well that can help.
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JONES
So you talk--you said everyone has their own different styles. One thing that you and I had slated to talk about was the compassionate side. You've mentioned that even if indirectly, you've gone back to talking about that as part of your communication style with patients, but what if a doctor just isn't--that's not his or her personality? And I know plenty that that's just not his or her personality. And we're talking about such a small subset of people, and you have to be so smart to be an REI and that asking for one more personality trait is a huge ask. So what if somebody just, that's just not them?
EYVAZZADEH 29:48
Yeah. And that's just, I mean, that's, I think, like, for me, patients come to me, because they know they can call me anytime. And I'll never be like, why did you call me? It can be a Saturday or Sunday and I'll be like, cool. And it's because like, I'm not dealing with a heart attack. I'm not dealing with shortness of breath, I'm dealing with like a period. And that's like, the biggest emergency. I mean, of course, we have other emergencies, too. But I'm just so lucky that I'm not an ER doctor dealing with that kind of things. Like my husband is like, please, like, let him deal with that kind of stuff. Like, this is easy, like, oh, you're calling me that your periods here. Don't worry about it. It's a Sunday, I don't care. You know, oh, it's two in the morning and you're freaking out, because like, something that, thank God, it's not a heart attack, like that kind of stuff doesn't upset me. And I get like, not everyone is going to be like me. But you know, I think there still is a way to have it crafted so patients know that if they call--so I tell patients, you have to do your shot every night between 7 and 9pm. And the reason is that I won't be asleep. And I'll be available if you need to video, call me if you're having an issue with your shot. So you don't necessarily have to be available 24/7 on your cell phone. But making sure a human is available, like as soon as they have a question while they're doing their injection during a certain window of time, I think is really helpful. So you don't have to be me to like, be available all the time. But maybe make yourself available for patients say between like 7 and 8 every day, I'll be on my phone, you need me You call me because I've heard things like people call a call center and they're like, routed to somewhere else and then by the time they get a call back, it's two hours later, and they're told you'll be charged $50 every time you call us. And it's like, what?! It's just a different style.
JONES 31:21
I think it is a natural advantage. It is part of someone's personality, but for the people that I had see that have this where they're just really compassionate person, and they're able to, I think that that that everyone that works in our field is, is compassionate, but the way I'm defining it here is that it's a signature perceived trait as externally that the patient perceives and the people that do have that have a really big advantage, it makes up for a lot, you can have a lot of crappy office procedures, processes, but if if the physician has that it makes up for a lot of my recommendation for those that that don't have it is to say that in the beginning, it's one of those pieces that when we're talking about pre suede and talking about preparing people, it is okay for the artist for the physician to say that Listen, I'm not doctor touchy feely, it is okay to put that out there. And I think they should it sets an expectation that allows people to self select because not everybody wants the same style of communication anyway. So it allows people to self select for who that is more, more, more jives better with and also to then make sure that you have people on this staff that compensate for that. So you don't have to be Dr. touchy feely, but if you're not, then there should certainly be a number of patient facing people on the team that are and then you can balance it with some of the processes that Dr. Aimee’s spoken about. So Aimee, okay, if we spend the last few minutes talking about just having an entrepreneur to entrepreneur conversation of some of the things I'm just frickin curious about your operation from afar, can we talk about that?
EYVAZZADEH
Go for it.
JONES
You're a workhorse. That's how I observe you. You could do a lot less work and just be a busy single practitioner in the Bay Area. And you are intrinsically motivated, and you have this mission. So then why not scale the mission not just in terms of the brand, but also in terms of the operation that you run? So like you very wisely have created these brands and processes that aren't totally tied to you. It's like it's the Egg Whisperer with Dr. Aimee but could also be the Egg Whisperer with anyone you hire. And it could be the Tushy Method that scaled across the group. So why not go for--why not be the CCRM, or Shady Grove or insert large group here, and you’re hiring docs that follow that buy into this system and scale much further than one provider.
EYVAZZADEH 34:03
Because I don't need that money. For me, it's not about the money, it's about the message. It's about scaling the message. And not, I'm not saying that the CCRMs and all them are about the money for me, like, it's not about getting as many IVF cycles as I can get in my lifetime. That's not my goal. My goal is reaching as many people who need to hear this message of positivity, and that's it. So scaling the message is what I'm trying to do. And I'm trying to amplify that. And I'm not trying to scale me in terms of getting more patients and that it's happening, obviously, as a result of, you know, amplifying my message, because people--there are people that are just--like you said, some people might like how I take care of people, and some people just might not like me, because I'm too touchy feely for them. And that's fine. But that's kind of my goal, I do want to leave something behind that has value. And I think the Egg Whisperer--I call it the Egg Whisperer Plan and my Egg Whisperer Golden Rules--nd I think they will live on when I am no longer here. And I just hope that people can then, you know, somehow I would love to, like turn this into some sort of AI platform where, you know, someone can just like, get their tissue checked, and then get their levels tracked and trended over time. And then sperm testing and genetic stuff, and all that kind of stuff and just give people a roadmap, without even having to enter a fertility clinic. I mean, like, those are the kinds of thoughts and ideas that I have. And I hope eventually all that stuff will happen. So I do have like, huge goals, but not Egg Whisperer Fertility Clinics--I don't want an Egg Whisperer Fertility Clinic in every city in America doing IVF cycles, I want every patient to know about the Egg Whisperer Way. And I think most doctors do have the same philosophy, but sometimes, you know, they're not saying it in words that maybe patients can understand. So they can make it a plan that's best for them based on all the information that they're given.
JONES 35:57
So I understand that the money, that's just that's extrinsic motivation, I could just tell how intrinsically motivated you are. So the money, but a lot of entrepreneurs don't care about the money for a lot of entrepreneurs, the money is really just a way of keeping score. And then or otherwise, Warren Buffett wouldn't live in the same Ranch House that he has, since 1960, whatever. And so, there is the possibility is okay, everything I've built can end up being something else, whether it comes from the tech side of something, some scalable solution might maybe it didn't, involves artificial intelligence, you're definitely in the right geographic area to start to be to be connected with people that can help bring those solutions together.
EYVAZZADEH 36:39
I mean, I have technology, I have an app, and soon it will be out. It was in beta version, and then I decided to redo it ‘cause I wasn't happy with it and so I'm redesigning it right now. And so hopefully, that will be out soon. So there are parts of my business that could potentially be sold when I'm ready to retire. Do you know what I mean? But right now, that's not even something that I'm thinking about.
JONES 36:59
But what you said explicitly--I don't want Egg Whisper Clinics throughout the country, why not like--I get that the money isn't important to you. But why not for the period saying, you know what, there's a better way of doing this. And if I'm at the top, I can bring people in, have more control, we can impact more people with the way other people are doing, it just isn't as optimal as doing it this way. And I think that there's a whole crop of young doctors and nurses and potential staff that would want to buy into this, and we can help execute that for more people across the continent. So why so emphatic about I get the money. But why is it I don't want Egg Whisperer clinics throughout the country?
EYVAZZADEH 37:43
Well, I mean, if we can find a way to automate kindness and compassion and make it just ingrained in people, but like you said, everyone has different personalities. And the things that I hear other fertility doctors sometimes say to patients, it's like, mortifying, and it's like if someone had my name on their clinic, and patients were talked to in a way that was demeaning and degrading, I'd have a hard time with that. That would make me feel really, really bad. And so like, I've heard patients told, like, even if you had all the money in the world, you would never get pregnant with your own eggs and saying that to like, someone who's 34 years old, and then, you know, and of course, like people can say things, but who knows if that's what they were really told. But sometimes people actually use words like that, trying to get a message to a patient, and they think that that's the way to give them the message. But that's not the way to get people a message that makes people really angry and depressed and traumatized for like, years, I mean, like the patient who was told that like, she's still talking about it 10 years later. So, I mean, that's part of the reason is like I can't, it's really hard to have someone mirror my approach. And it's hard to teach if not impossible to teach. But through technology, there might be a way of using technology to make sure people like along the way, are getting what they need from a cycle without having like, necessarily all the human contact, and I'm hoping that maybe some something will come out of these ideas that I have.
JONES 39:00
That's interesting. Why is it very difficult and maybe even impossible to teach?
EYVAZZADEH 39:04
Because people don't want people texting them. Like, I could probably go to my phone right now and I'll have five text messages. And I tell my patients, I used to tell them, I'm like herpes, you know, I never go away. And what I mean by that is, once they're pregnant, I always want them to know that I'm here for them. And now I tell them, I'm like your luggage, you always know where I am in your house, so if you ever need me, you know where I am. So please reach out to me and I love getting updates from patients throughout their pregnancy, I consider every pregnancy and angriness and that your pregnancy is a VIP. And now more than ever, it is so important that my IVF patients get the best prenatal care, because as you've heard, there is an increase in stillbirth right now going on through this pandemic. And I think a lot of that has to do with telemedicine and not seeing patients face-to-face. And I think IVF patients are at higher risk of, you know, some things happening, especially in the third trimester, especially in patients who are over a certain age. So I feel like that by staying connected to my patients, if they ever need something, I can advocate for them if they need me to advocate for them. So, you know, that's not something that a lot of people will do. I know there are physicians out there that do that. But there's just a handful of us.
JONES 40:10
So I wonder if the part that I'm just curious about is it because to me, it seems if not teachable, replicable, because you have the system and either people are a good fit for being able to execute or not, but you have all this whole system in place. You got 1100 colleagues throughout the country, do you not? Are you really like one of these entrepreneurs, that's just like, so control freak of what they've gotten, it's hard to pass on because of 1100 people, it seems like you could find 10 or 12 that really fit your value system, and you've got the process. And so it's either you're all bought into this process, and we're screening for that and bring you on and we're able to replicate or you're not. And we just diligently screen for that in the hiring or partnership process.
EYVAZZADEH 40:58
I mean, the way I think about it, in a way, it's kind of a curse. I mean, it's definitely a superpower. But it's also a little bit of a curse to be genetically engineered in the way that I'm engineering. I mean, I almost envy people that are like, Oh, I don't do my patients might not envy. That's the wrong word to use. I can't relate to them, because it's just hard for me. But at the same time, I'm like, W ow, you can actually put your phone down on Friday, and go back to work on a Monday and not even worry about anything. But I just know what makes me feel value and self worth is being able to care for other people. And being able to go to sleep at night knowing that I took care of every single patient that need my help that day, I answered every single question I followed every single pregnancy test, I gave every single person a plan. And so I don't if there's someone out there that's listening, that you feel like you are as Griffin just said, like control freak like me, call me because you'll be hired. But the practical reality is, today's culture is not like that. People want to have their time off and their hobbies. And for me My hobby is my work. And that is my passion. And you know, I don't expect other people to be as hard working as I am working seven days a week, I literally come to the office every single day, I see patients Saturdays and Sundays, I do retrievals every day except December 25.
JONES 42:20
I think that's the reason why your situation drives me crazy. Because there are a lot of people that are--they're just a control freak, it's they're not going to be a good fit partnering with somebody else, because they just don't see things the same way. But most of those people don't have brands, systems and processes that they've really made unique. And it just seems like okay, it's like you have the thing that are the antidote for the first thing and you can scale. But I also see how deeply intrinsically motivated you are. And I can just tell that that's where your focus is and, and the systems, it seems to me are more of a bright byproduct of that than anything else. I'm just saying that I'm working my tail off to build this client services firm, build the processes, scale a little. I'm not trying we're not trying to become huge, but we got some pretty big clients and we've got a team starting to get bigger and I love that. But it's, it has taken me years to be able to do this. And I've really had to struggle and you're such a workforce that if I could bottle your bandwidth, I think that I would have a $50 million company already without any outside.
EYVAZZADEH 43:25
And that's what I tell private equity. It's like, Oh, you want to buy me? It's going to be 50 million. You don't--I mean, because it's like, there's no--it's not worth, like, I don't need like, this isn't about money for me. And for me to really feel like, I just don't want anyone to feel like they'll own me and somehow take away my message from me, that is something that I avoid, like the plague.
JONES 43:43
Well, it drives me a bit crazy, but I get and appreciate how motivated you are for just approaching patient care in a different way. So Aimee, we're wrapping up--most of this audience's practice owners, your colleagues, some execs in the field, a lot of REI fellows, how would you want to conclude about what you see what you're paying attention to what you think is important for the field, and particularly with Patient Relations and Communication in the next coming years?
EYVAZZADEH 44:12
I think what I'm hoping to see is that patients are given all the information about their embryos. I feel like there's a lack of transparency. And I think it has to do with people not having enough time to talk to patients about their eggs and embryos. And then that's why people are reaching out to me. They're saying things like, Oh, I'm 42 years old, I've unexplained infertility, I had no glasses, and no one's telling you why. And I'm like, that just shouldn't happen. And so I feel like patients can handle the news, like, tell them like it's because you're 42 or if someone's let's say 34 and has only one blast, don't tell them that it's unexplained. You tell them this is an embryo quality issue. And let me teach you what that means for you. So I hope that people who are listening aren't afraid to talk to people. And just find language that you feel comfortable using that can help patients understand what's going on with them. Like I just came up with another thing, age, age, how to improve embryo quality, what you need to know A stands for your age genes, your genetics is your environment and just break it down in these things for people. So figure out your own way of breaking these things, these things down. You're gonna have a lot more fun in your practice.
JONES 45:21
Dr. Aimee Eyvazzadeh, thanks so much for coming on Inside Reproductive Health.
EYVAZZADEH 45:25
Thank you for having me.